Front Brake Caliper Upgrade ?

Has been a bit of learning curve going down from the Katana with Brembo calipers on twin 320mm discs to the single caliper set-up on the VL.  Has anyone fitted an upgraded caliper on a VL ?

Dave I am in the process of getting info from the Harrison Mr Billet company so will let you know which caliper they recommend as soon as they let me know ok???

That should be interesting, I saw their stand at excel and their calipers looked really good didn't think to ask if they did one for our bikes. Will be waiting, thanks peter.

One of the guys on the forum (Cjax,Chris) has a 6 pot caliper on his vs800, I wonder if it's the same company?

Ha ha, yeah it's a Harrison mini 6.

Yep - that's the sort of thing.  Keep me updated please Pete.  I'll be popping round for a coffee sometime soon mate

Will be getting back to them tomorrow as I've been a bit overwhelmed the last day or so.

OK bud.  I'll speak to you soon mate

I have always been happy with my breaks, any stronger wouldn't be needed by me.

Still awaiting a reply from Billet I'm afraid.

No rush Pete - it's just one thing on the list of possibles

Interesting ...like the look of those ..

Have had no reply so will be kicking up shortly!

I wonder if you still use standard brake pads or if theyvwil be a different shape ,length etc?  I wouldn't mind a little extra stopping power ..

You'll be using the pads designed for the calipers

wonder if it would be better with a different disk?
has anyone else noticed any blueing on there disk?

The 'Billet' callipers do have their 'own' pads, I recall seeing them on their stand at the NEC a few years back.

The first design was the 'Billet-6', but I'm sure they also did a mini billet.

I found this web-link, but unsure if they are still 'active'.

Harrison Billet Engineering - high performance motorcycle ...
www.billet.co.uk/harley.htm

Another manufacturer of aftermarket callipers is Pretech See :-

Pretech - Brake Calipers | Motorcycle Brake Calipers ...
www.pretech.co.uk

It might be worth looking at the 6-pot callipers that have been fitted to Japanese sports bikes - such as the 6-pot Nissin Callipers fitted to the TL1000S (amongst others). The anchor bolts pitch & offset need to be considered, but I have seen alternative callipers fitted to bikes using adapter plates (Including an R1 caliper on VX800 !)

NO blue just constant rust! if its blueing then you are pushing too hard and braking too late and only using the fronts.......yeh baby ride it like you stole it. Heavy bike single front disk, basic caliper and pads = blue discs! mine goes in tomorrow for ebc sintered will eat the disc compared to standard but better stopping power.

Hi Justin,

Sounds like you need a 'twin disc' conversion !

Of course the same argument could apply to uprated callipers, they will grip harder, create more friction and whilst it will give better stopping power it could lead to overtaxing the standard disc (i.e. cause blueing) if you repeatedly abuse the brakes ...... horse for course etc. !

Yam

fat intruder wrote:

wonder if it would be better with a different disk?
has anyone else noticed any blueing on there disk?

Your front brakes not sticking is it Morgan? try getting the wheel in the air and spinning it after applying the brake just to check the caliper is releasing.

The Billet caliper I'm persuing is the mini 6 Billet one.
The closest Pretech one is one for the SV650 but no price's as I could find?
I'm till waiting for Billet to get back, may even fone them later today?

I only ever use SBS sintered or Carbon Lorraine pads ...won't use EBC pads after lining failure on two separate bikes a few years apart ... A multi pot caliper would give more pressure and feel ...might try and source an alternative disc too..

Just got in & had a message from Billet saying they were having a bike in tomorrow to try one of there mini calipers to see if it will fit?
I'll let you know as soon as I can ok guy's?

Sounds Great Peter, Thanks.

simbo wrote:

fat intruder wrote:

wonder if it would be better with a different disk?
has anyone else noticed any blueing on there disk?

Your front brakes not sticking is it Morgan? try getting the wheel in the air and spinning it after applying the brake just to check the caliper is releasing.

good point sim but no it's fine I think I just go a little to fast and brake a little to late lol

justyn I use the back break as well lol otherwise these bikes would never stop hahaha

WHAT back break! I didn't know these bikes had one, that explains the abuse I get from drivers I thought that little pedal on the rh foot rest was for the snare drum oops

Right, today I finally got a reply from MrBillet as follows;-

We have found a caliper to fit but to do so you will need a longer brake line by about 50mm or even 60mm as the standard line is too short.
Also the standard master cylinder is only 12mm so will give a soft lever so we recommend a 14mm at least to ensure a firm lever.
Prices vary upon finish, eg a MINI 6 BILLET original style caliper with BILLET 6 show polishing would be £284- +vat & P&P.
A black anodised or clear anodised is £306- +vat & P&P.
All calipers are supplied ready to fit with pads & pin's etc but no fixing bolts or brake line.

So I think I'm going to pass on this on guy's as it's way out of my pocket range even though it would make the bike stop better.
I don't think the 'Pretech?' system will be any cheaper but I'll let someone else ask them for a quote ok. By the way you need to know the fixing bolt centre measurement, 55mm aprox' & it's to fit a 300mm disc + the model of bike.

peardrop3 wrote:

Prices vary upon finish, eg a MINI 6 BILLET original style caliper with BILLET 6 show polishing would be £284- +vat & P&P.
A black anodised or clear anodised is £306- +vat & P&P.
All calipers are supplied ready to fit with pads & pin's etc but no fixing bolts or brake line.

So I think I'm going to pass on this on guy's as it's way out of my pocket range even though it would make the bike stop better.

  I'll buy a £1 stress ball to strengthen my grip so I can pull the brake lever harder 

Yes - you also need to remember that the pads are 'specials', unique to this calliper and are also more expensive to replace than mass produced items.

As such this is where substitution of a mass produced calliper might be more cost effective - if you do the homework to see if it would fit. Thinking of the Nissin or Tokico type 6-pot callipers. I have 'pondered' this option before, but never got around to doing any significant research (I just don't have the time at the moment as I'm still 'bogged down' at work).

Interesting point Mr Billet mentioned in respect of master cylinder not being 'man-enough' to give a good feel on the brakes - a point often missed when substituting front brake components - all to do with the volume of fluid pumped in a single stroke of the lever. You need good flow volume to feed six pistons so that the pad are properly forced onto the disc.  ..... You can imagine the disappointment of having spent so much on a posh calliper, and it ending up feeling 'crap' because of a 'weedy' (unsuitable) master cylinder. ...... or like Sim says ....
..... keep squeezing your balls ! 

Peter got a reply from Pretech about his enquiry on a uprated caliper for the vl800, this was their reply.

Hi.
We don`t list a caliper for the VL800 but we do a SV650 which is the only other caliper with 55mm hole centres. The calipers come in at £260.00 plus vat and come with pads fitted and anodised in the colour of you`re choice.

Regards, Steve Kane.


I'd still rather invest in a stress ball 

I think the 800 brakes are OK.

Mr Intruder wrote:

I think the 800 brakes are OK.

I've had worse lol   better pads and a braided hose will give better bang for bucks imo

The cheaper option is reprogramming the brain of the rider ...... As Dave says - they are up to the job most of the time ..... & when they're not you are likely to be pushing your 'cruiser a little harder than intended ....... & maybe you should look for a different kind of bike ...... or learn to love your bikes limitations !

just my opinion but completely don't agree with the comments "pushing a little harder than intended"
"maybe you should look for a different kind of bike"

Hi guy's. Been a bit busy so thanks to Sim for putting that item on for me, much obliged.
I am not going down the big caliper route, yet, as I have a braided line & HH pads to fit & I'm used to all sorts of brakes from push bike to linked triple disc's on my ST1300 Pan European so I'm happy with what I have, for now muhahaha.......

fat intruder wrote:

just my opinion but completely don't agree with the comments "pushing a little harder than intended"
"maybe you should look for a different kind of bike"

Hi Morgan,
Don't misunderstand me, 'cos what I wrote is a comment and not necessarily my personal opinion. I ain't saying don't push the envelope ..... just saying to people don't blame the poor brakes for the excitement it creates ! ....... over the years I've tore the boundary a few times (when pushing the envelope), & sometimes paid a price for it. As I said before - some of the 'fun' of some bikes are the limitations they have and how you can exploit them to your advantage. You could give me ANY bike to ride & I would find something to enjoy about  it !

Hello Dave,
I was answering another post and thought I would add a little to this discussion.
I`v not seen a twin disc set up on a vl800 but I have on a vz800 marauder,, that said the research that went into gaining information for the Vz 800 twin disc conversion may be of use for looking into for a vl800 brake upgrade if you do not want to go down the change wheel and twin disc route, plus I have heard that sv calipers have been swapped onto M800`s.
The early vz800 Marauder calipers are apparently interchangeable with later M800`s and in my opinion virtually identical to early VL`s calipers.
"Here is the list of the bikes which use the same right caliper as the marauder but have dual disk as standard"
- Katana GSX600F 1998 - 2006
- Katana GSX750F 1998 - 2006
- SV650 1999 - 2009
- SV650S 1999 - 2009
- V-Strom DL1000 2002 - 2009
- V-Strom DL650 2002 - 2006
Master cylinder - you can use from almost every bike, it needs to be 5/8 NISSIN, all of the bikes above use that and many other metric bike also.

I stress that this info was gathered by a bloke from Bulgaria for his twin disc conversion on a vz800 marauder so I think you could treat it as fairly sound information to use as a base and maybe investigate further,, if the callipers fit from a larger engine/heavier bike you may get the improvements that you are seeking, I would also look at replacing the master cylinder with the doner bike if you go down this route. I also notice that you had a katana, you may have spare calipers that may work for you.

I hope this is of some help mate or at least food for thought.

P.S I think the standard brakes on both my vz800 marauder and my M800 are are well up for the job,, I have progressive feel from both front brakes and can lock up both rear`s with there drums and both fronts with the single discs and as we all know locking brakes dose not slow us down or stop us so if the brakes as they are can lock the wheels the maximum brakeing I am ever going to get from these bike is just before they lock no matter what brakes I have on,, regular fluid changes and braided brake lines with decent quality sintered pads do make a difference in feel which helps with the progressive feel, which I feel is important to me,, I`v had bikes ware the brakes were like a light swith they were not working or fully on no feathering or feed back at all.

Yes - John brings a few good point out there, including one of the commonly missed points - Change your brake fluid regularly - At least every two years, irrespective of the mileage you do.
Clean, fresh, brake fluid maintains the performance and feel of your brakes and prevents the onset of internal corrosion issues (Which will lead to deterioration in braking performance over time).

I think if someone does need a twin disc front end then the VL1500 has such a set up & would looking at it, fit, without too much of a problem.

Very interesting thread.  The Pretechs look neat, but by the time you've added a larger master cylinder & possible had to change your line, it's becoming expensive.  A few years back, I'd have gone for changing to a twin disc set-up & look at fitting a disc at the rear.  If I had the time, I'd consider it as a project - but nowadays, I think I'll ride to the bikes limits, instead of extending them.  Just changing the hose, pads & fluid made a massive difference - I don't think the amount of benefit to be gained from going further, against the time & money spent would be worth it.  I'd swapped the Katana brakes out years ago & sold off the original brakes, but as people have pointed out - I need to adapt my riding style.

Hope I've not wasted too many peoples time on this one

No, even if no-one does the work today there will no doubt be someone tomorrow who really has to do it for their own happiness, and its been interesting reading!

I simply hope this helps someone who as Dave say's, feel's the need to hang another disk on or a better caliper, & who know's, maybe Suzuki may be selling a twin disk Intruder by then???
Glad I could have been of some help by doing the footwork.