VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.

Pretty obvious Dave, Once you undo the three domed nuts to release the drive, remove the seal and the circlip is inside, remove that and the shaft just pulls out, This is an 800 drive,shaft,seal, spring and seal.

pic 29

Thanks Sim - you make it look so easy  !!!

Mr I or Sim - can you answer please?  Is the shaft from a VX 800 the same length - Prospect Brains has offered me one

Hi Dave, It comes up as a different part number so I'd say NO. it'd be nice to know the dimensions of one though, if possible? I could compare it to a stock vl800 shaft just to know the difference?

I have been researching this bloody question for the last 30 minutes. I have found a guy that says it can be done but I see no proof. I also checked the part numbers and found a difference, I can see this question giving me a headache I gotta no for sure, so I will keep looking for any evidence. 

Different.

Bugger - thanks for looking anyway.  It'd be interesting to find out if it's possible to cross reference parts to check compatibility between models - I know that the Katana shared components with other models in the GSX range, but they were listed with different part numbers (& different prices)

Finally got round to trying the mod after my op.  

Fuck me - what a difference - fantastic.  a lot more grunt & no need to change gear anywhere as many times.  Round town, I can do most of the work in second, occasionally knocking up to third.  No need to change down for quick overtakes.  Motorway riding is completely different - nowhere near as "busy" as before, a lot smoother.  Haven't noticed any acceleration drop-off whilst pulling away from stops, I can just hold it in the same gear for longer.  Not had to fill-up yet, but I'm guessing it'll improve fuel economy as well.

Brilliant mod - well worth doing

Big thanks to Mr I., Sim & most importantly, Peardrop Pete for helping me out so much whilst I was incapacitated after my op.  Couldn't have done it without you Pete.  And indeed everyone else for their advice.

Glad this thread helped.  
The bike feels like a different bike now doesn't it, best mod that can be done to these bikes, by far.

Welcome to 'The Club' 

Thought you'd like it Dave!

Hi Dave,
Great to hear that you are enjoying the fruits of all that hard work you've been doing on your bike whilst you ere 'laid up' & unable to ride.

Good to hear you are now back on your bike                           Yam

So I've been running the mod for a few weeks & am just getting used to the feel.  Went out the other day & noticed a misting of oil over the nearside of the rear tyre & rim.  Found a small amount of oil pooled under the diff casing.  Pete kindly popped over to give me a hand on Sunday morning (cheers mate) & we found oil was making it's way past where the diff attaches to the shaft housing.  When we removed it, oil had worked it's way past the shaft seal which Pete had replaced.  That seal looks good & flat so we're assuming that the fault lies with the only seal that wasn't replaced, the one that sits between the bevel gear bearing & the bearing stopper ( part number 09283-47002)  Pete tells me this one is a git to replace & will require specialist tools (I've had a look at the 800 manual, & if the 1400 runs the same, it'll need a special puller to remover the bearing).  Pete already has the seal, so that's not a problem - however - the service manual states (& again I'm assuming the same applies to the 1400) "The removed bearing must be replaced with a new one" - which is £80.00 !!! 

So I'm after some advice/ideas.  My usual mechanic can't do it, so before I go down the main dealer route (which I'd rather not do) - has anyone actually done this seal themselves, or does anyone have any other ideas whether that's where the problem will be.  I don't want to send it in & have the seal & bearing replaced, only to find that's not what it is.

At least I still have the old shaft, diff & spacer so I'm not off road.

Just had a chat with Pete who's pointed out the blinding obvious mistake I've made.  Looking at the manual again, I can now see that the when the bearing stopper is removed, the bearing stays in place & doesn't need to be replaced.  So unless anyone has any ideas, it's going to be a trip down to the Suzuki dealer with a request to fit a new (customer supplied) seal.

Hi Dave, I've never taken that seal out myself as mine isn't leaking, but from my understanding of the workshop manual? the seal that needs replacing on yours is situated in the bearing stopper so there's no need to remove the bearing, just the stopper to fit a new seal, admittedly the manual says a special tool is required to remove the nut from the end of the shaft and the bearing stopper, I'd be inclined to try other methods before buying those tools though, try fitting the diff to Pete's spare wheel with the spindle and brake drum in place with washers to take up the space left by the swing arm on the spindle, one could undo the nut whilst the other holds the wheel to stop it spinning?, Bearing stopper? large grips? try drifting it round with a hammer and something that would fit between the ridges? These are only my opinion and things I'd try doing so I can't guarantee they'll work?.

'C' spanner?

I've had a word with Dave & the basic design is the same for both 'sizes' of diff so I'm taking the seal & a diagram of the VS1400 parts(from www.cmnsl.com) & we'll have a heads up then but I think Dave will have to go to the local dealer for the actual seal replacement as they, hopefully, have the correct tools to do the job?

I'm hoping that as the diff is already off the bike, they won't have my pants down.  Looking at what's involved, there can't be more than an hours labour involved (he says hopefully)

'Oh no sir it wont take us long as it's already off the bike'.........

6 month's later 'we've done your little job sir but have had a small accident with it &....'......

God - I feel such a dick.  I've just realised that this is the seal that Dave told me would need changing when I had the diff unit off him - I'm such a prat !!!  I'm going to blame it on the excitement of having a new toy.  The main dealer tells me they can't do it as they don't have the tool - but if I'd like to buy it (at a cost of £128 + VAT) they would be quite happy to do the job.  Mate - if I had the tool, I'd be quite happy to do the job.

Crux of it - has anyone ever changed this seal - if so, how?  I'm thinking along Sims line of big wrench, but I need to be careful not to damage anything inside.  Worse come to worse, I'll buy the tool - I'm sure at some point that someone will ask to borrow it off me.  Someone must have changed this seal on either the 800 or 1400 - if, please spill the beans.

katsd wrote:

God - I feel such a dick.  I've just realised that this is the seal that Dave told me would need changing when I had the diff unit off him

Sorry I haven't read this thread properly for ages, or I would of realized the install was a not done right & come back quicker. I have a spare diff somewhere & will take it apart & work out a way of removing the parts without any special tools. There's always a way.

Thanks Dave - this was completely my fault for not reading your instructions thoroughly.  My cousin (he's a truck fitter) has taken away my spare 800 drive this morning so he can work out a way of removing the seal - he seems to think it'd do-able.  

If nothing else, it could be a tutorial if anyone else ever needs to replace this seal - I'm sure someone else has suffered from or will suffer from the same problem.

Apologies again for not reading properly what you told me - I feel such a dick !!

We live and learn, it'll be nice when it's all done.

Too much haste, as they say !!  Thing is, being back on the 800 diff just feels wrong.

Hi Guys 
this seems to be an amazing mod to be done and seeing as i am in need of a new rear diff this seems the most logical route to go. I just have a a question hope this is the right place to put it.

I have a 2005 C50 K5 will any VS1400 rear diff fit or is it a specific year or model.

Any help appreciated.

volusiam4tt wrote:

I have a 2005 C50 K5 will any VS1400 rear diff fit or is it a specific year or model.

Any help appreciated.

Any VS1400 will fit 

Any luck with your drive Katsd (Dave)?

Cheers for the reply Simbo hopefully ive just tracked one down.

volusiam4tt wrote:

Cheers for the reply Simbo hopefully ive just tracked one down.

Double check it's not a vs750 or vs800 drive 

YES for gods sake make sure you see the pictures of Mr I's diff as you'll find some numbers on the diff back housing that do not appear on any other diff than the VS1400 one, don't ask how I know as it was an expensive cock up from a twat in Scotland who did the dirty on me!

simbo wrote:

Any luck with your drive Katsd (Dave)?

H Sim

To be honest, it's been sat on my cousins bench for a couple of weeks - both of us have been too busy with other stuff.  I did contact Suzuki directly to ask if they had any suggestions - their answer was for me to contact my local dealer & ask them to order me the part in !!  They did kindly supply me with contact details of my local dealer.  I'm in no rush - it'll get done when it gets done.  I can see it running into winter, which won't be a bad thing as I'm intending having the rims & hubs powder coated so the diff housing will be sprayed as well.

I do think it's a bit crap that a main dealer isn't set-up to do certain jobs, & the main importer is unable to help.  It will make me think twice about buying another Suzuki.

katsd wrote:

simbo wrote:

Any luck with your drive Katsd (Dave)?

H Sim
I do think it's a bit crap that a main dealer isn't set-up to do certain jobs, & the main importer is unable to help.  It will make me think twice about buying another Suzuki.

I don't think that deficiency would be limited to Suzuki dealers to be honest Dave, I think most dealers are out of their depth when it comes to anything other than a basic service, admittedly some of the mechanics will be fully trained in their line of work and have great experience beyond us mere mortals, it's the powers that be that won't supply the required tools for these one off jobs due to profits and meeting targets, I'm still optimistic there's a way to remove the seal without requiring the special Suzuki tools, so hopefully your Cousin will come up with an alternative method, where there's a will, there's a way 

Just been thinking about this & may have a solution???

After removing the lock washer & nut & removing the drive I think it may work so that to remove the locking ring with the oil seal & O ring you could find a large socket(probably 1" drive) & get some studding or rod cut to the length of the serrations & squeeze them between the socket & the ring so they lock together so making it possible to remove the lock ring.
I know it sounds difficult but if you can imagine in your mind what I'm saying to an engineer it would become obvious to him what I mean.

If anyone wants to contact me to try to understand what I'm saying then please do via PM ok?

I was also wondering if it was really necessary to remove the shaft drive but then it hit me that the seal goes between the ring & the shaft so it would have to come off anyway.

Pete - I've been looking at the diagram again.  To me, it looks like the seal is behind the coupling holder, inside the final drive bearing stopper.  So the only awkward piece to remove is the coupling holder.  It looks like the tool holds the coupling holder still, whilst the long socket goes through the middle of it to undo the retaining nut.  So what about if the rods sat above the height of the coupling enabling something (another length of rod for instance) to be pushed through them to hold it.  The only thing is, the nut is torqued down to 100 N-m, so that's well tight.

Failing all else, I ship a tool in from The States - cost about £70 there - someone's bound to need it in the fduture

Speak to you soon Dave ok?

OK mate

Any progress with the Drive Dave?

Yes & no !!!  Working on your idea - Pete's lent me his spare wheel - the idea is that we use that to "lock" the diff from spinning.  We were thinking of putting the wheel on a rug, then fixing the diff unit to it, one of us would hold the wheel in place whilst the other loosens the lock-nut.  I have all the necessary seals, circlips etc.  Just trying to work out a date when both me & my cousin are both free - never easy when one of you works shifts & the other has to travel about 90 minutes each way to work.  But we'll get there - again - many thanks for the suggestion & a big thanks to Pete for supplying the wheel.  I'll certainty let you know when something happens - thanks for asking

Bit of an update - finally managed to get both me & cous together at the same time.  Decided to run with Sims idea of using Petes wheel to lock the diff in place. Put Petes wheel on an old rug, dropped the diff on the hub & use a cordless impact driver with a 22 mm deep socket - came off straight away & the final drive coupling dropped out - so that's one specialist tool you don't need.  

Next issue was removing the bearing stopper, which again you need a specialist tool for.  Marked the stopper & hosing with a small punch mark so we'd know when it was tighten up to the same spot, then used a drift to undo the stopper.  Again, came off easily - so that's a second specialist tool you don't need.

Got the seal out, but it was a bit of a bitch to drift the new one into place - we placed the old seal on top of the new one & used a large socket to tap it into place.  Tightened the stopper up by hand, then drifted it till the punch marks lined up.

Torqued the coupling nut back up to 100 n/m but the problem came when we came to lock the coupling nut back in place - unfortunately, the lock tabs are "compromised", so I need to order a new nut.  Took about an hour, but that's because we didn't know what we were doing.  I reckon that if you've done it before, the whole job should take about an twenty to thirty minutes.

Couple of things - this is a two man job - one to hold the diff from spinning & one to wield the tools.  Second thing is that we used an impact driver - if you have access to one of these or an air gun, it's a doddle.  Otherwise, you're going to need a long beaker bar & plenty of grunt.

So it is do-able with no specialist tools - I'm looking forward to informing the Suzuki dealer who refused to do the job that.  Although, in all fairness, they'd probably baulk at the idea of using a drift.

I'll update when we've finished - hopefully that'll nail the leak.

Glad you got it sorted Dave, where there's a will there's a way  

Glad its finally done, wow what a bitch that was 

Fitting the one off mine to Micks on Sunday morning  

simbo wrote:

Fitting the one off mine to Micks on Sunday morning  

Can't wait !

I hope the surgery goes well and the patient recovers fully. I'm not sure how the doting parent will cope though while the surgery is being performed, I hope you have some smelling salts in your toolbox Sim to revive Mick if necessary

I'll just give him a Micro Fibre cloth and some Mr Sheene  that'll keep him quiet for a day or two 

Well?? How's Mick

He may well be in recovery ward(aka the bar) after the transplant Andrew???

v-twin wrote:

Well?? How's Mick

It was an eventful morning!    after parking the bike half under the carport thinking I'd be working on the rear in the sunshine    it rained    and after about the 20th attempt at getting the shaft to line up    it finally slotted home and went smoothly back together   quick test ride   and off he rode into the distance 

Good man. How much difference does it actually make? Is it noticeable and is the fuel consumption less??